Thursday, 12 February 2015

If You Like Top of the Pops at Midnight...

So we've escaped to the final evening of January 1980.....

Welcome to 50 Shades of Top of the Pops
31-1-80: Presenter: David Jensen

(29) THE SELECTER – Three Minute Hero (and charts)
(56) THE REVILLOS – Motorbike Beat
(10) KENNY ROGERS – Coward Of The County (video)
(19) AZYMUTH – Jazz Carnival (danced to by Legs & Co)
(47) JOHN FOXX – Underpass
(3) MADNESS – My Girl ®
(52) THE SHADOWS – Riders In The Sky
(27) RUPERT HOLMES – Escape (The Piña Colada Song) ®
(36) THE RAMONES – Baby I Love You
(15) JON & VANGELIS – I Hear You Now (video)
(46) BILLY OCEAN – Are You Ready
(20) NEW MUSIK – Living By Numbers ®
(40) KEITH MICHELL – Captain Beaky
(1) THE SPECIALS – Too Much Too Young (video)
(30) QUEEN – Save Me (and credits)
The Selector ~ play over the 'colourful' chart rundown with their follow up to On My Radio
The Revillos ~ were first seen on the show two years earlier singing a song called Top of the Pops, although they called themselves the Rezillos back then. Motorbike Beat wasn't quite as successful and stalled outside the top 40.
Kenny Rogers ~ straight into the top ten and soon to be the next number one, and co-written by Roger Bowling who'd also co-written Kenny's 1977 chart topper, Lucille.
Azymuth ~ it's ironic that Legs & Co would be replaced a year or so later by a troupe by the name of Zoo - for here they are as a menagerie escaping from their cages.
John Foxx ~ no he's not singing 'underpants' - but the original lead singer of Ultravox made it to 31 in the charts with his first solo single.
Madness ~ another showing of their 3rd January performance with My Girl now at its peak.
The Shadows ~ were the first victims of tonight's 7.30 edit.
Rupert Holmes ~ David Jensen pointed out that this had been a number one hit in the USA but it ultimately peaked at 23 in the UK.
The Ramones ~ were over from New York for a rare visit to the Top of the Pops studio to perform what would become their only UK top ten hit ~ and was that a 'Blitz Kid' we saw dancing in the audience?
Jon and Vangelis ~ I thought we were going to get nothing but the transparent dancing man all the way through this video so was relieved when Jon popped up to do a bit of singing. Maybe if Jon had left Jon & Vangelis we'd have got Trevor & Vangelis?
Billy Ocean ~ it had been going on for 3 years now since Billy's last hit, the excellent Red Light Spells Danger, but the top 40 was not ready for this latest effort, indeed Billy would have to wait another four years for his next success.
New Muzik - were edited out of the 7.30 show thereby cruelly scuppering my plans to call this post 'Top of the Pops By Numbers'
Keith Michell ~ I can't believe they edited out the bravest animals in the land after Legs & Co had gone to all that effort earlier.
The Specials ~ and now we have one of those 'revealing the new presenter' moments ~ and it's a very thin and slightly sardonic Steve Wright to introduce the Specials at number one.
Queen ~ play us out this week with Save Me, the first of four top 20 hits for the band in 1980.
Next week then it's February 7th 1980 and our host is Steve Wright.


  1. My 'bad' last week. I didn't research properly to discover Azymuth were Legged this week. Now, where's that big conical hat with a letter D?

  2. Not a great episode this week, apart from Jon & Vangelis who came up with a decent video for I Hear You Now.

    The Ramones didn't look like they came all the way from America, but it was a good song, and stood out from most of the other performers on the show.

  3. The Kid gets us underway with The Selector over the charts, and an undercooked track that quite rightly has faded from everybody's memory.

    The Revillos. Whilst Top Of The Pops was a fairly enjoyable piece of pop, this is beyond awful and the performance did little to help matters - seven Revillos crammed onto a small stage.

    Kenny Rogers looking like Noel Edmonds older hairier brother and giving a laid-back live performance. Pretty standard C&W fare here and pretty surprising that it would go on to take the top spot.

    Then a stilted and totally uncalled for moment when Kid introduces the various Leggers as wild animals. Not sure what they were smoking when they came up with this routine because the connection between wild animals and an Azymuth song called Jazz Carnival completely passes me by.

    John Foxx. Non descript tune. Non performance. No points.

    A repeat showing for Madness' My Girl.

    Shadows. This was cut from the 7.30 broadcast but I am willing to bet that the Shads wore suits and ties and hardly moved from the spot. Oh, and Hank Marvin had the smuggest of smug looks on his face.

    The Ramones (all leather jackets and long hair) accompanied by the ToTP orch (all bus-pass-wielding and grey hair) with a decent Spector-produced cover of Baby I love You. This never sat well with me at the time, but I can look back at it now with a certain fondness. Dollar should take note that this is how to cover a 60s standard.

    Jon & Vangellis. Anderson has a very distinct 'Marmite' voice but it is one that brings back huge memories for me - especially from his 70s Yes days.

    Billy Ocean. Didn't think I knew this one and then it started and..... I was right. And the reason for that is it is woeful disco and suffered from something that a lot of disco songs of the era suffered from - bad production.

    Rupert Holmes returns pretending to be Steve Wright and introducing the Specials at number 1.

    And out we go with Queen 'Save Me'. Having been a fan of Freddie and the boys since Seven Seas Of Rhye, it was around this time I started to lose interest in their music. With the exception of Another One BitesThe Dust I can't think of a single future Queen single that would engage with me.

    And the marks. Kid gets a 6 - dropping points for the Legs & Co embarrasment. The show picks up a 4 with only the Ramones, Jon & Vangelis, and The Specials preventing it from being a clunking 2.

    Lets hope Mr Wright's debut next week is better.

    1. This Kenny Rogers footage could have been superimposed on the Meat Loaf Bat Out Of Hell Videos a couple of years earlier, and no-one would have noticed the difference. Kenny was certainly dressed similar, and the concert and disco lights footage were also pretty much the same

  4. I prefer the episodes that are a wacky all over the place mix, so this one was fine by me. Starting out with a jaunty Selecter over a chart rundown apparently designed by a fan of Fine Fare's Yellow Pack budget line. Never could work out if this song is rude or not (like Missy Elliott's One Minute Man x3 or something).

    What was the difference between the Rezillos and the Revillos (apart from one letter)? Nobody will ever know. Great little tune this, reminiscent of a 60s "rebel" song, though the staging does demonstrate how difficult it is to dance on a motorbike.

    Kenny Rogers, you know when you listen to the lyrics of this it's a really grim song, with bullying, rape and brutally violent retribution to go with the wistful country melody. No matter what Kenny croons, it also sounds to be endorsing taking the law into your own hands.

    Legs & Co in a sort of less celebrated version of the infamous Jungle Rock routine, quite what that had to do with Brazil I'm not sure. Well, there's a jungle there I suppose.

    John Foxx, with his name in lights, and once someone mentions underpants it's all you can hear. A decent enough, sparse electro tune, but in the shadow of Gary Numan with its urban futurism.

    The Shads go disco, and finally the crowd are dancing. Not a cool record by any means, but surprisingly groovy and rather this than the yawnfest of Don't Cry for Me Argentina. But was that a grocer's apostrophe on their banner?

    I really like the End of the Century album, but can see why some have a problem with this track, it's not very Ramones-y and seems to have been a favour to Phil Spector to push some royalties his way. The choice of mixing in the TOTP orchestra was the least punk thing ever.

    Jon and Vangelis, was that an actual mime? Annoyingly precious video, but it's a pleasant tune, even in the savagely cut off version we get here.

    Billy Ocean, or maybe John Foxx again, according to the scenery. If I'm not mistaken the Maggie Stredder Singers were sounding rather masculine here, in fact they sounded as if Mags had banded together some cameramen and forced them to provide backing for Billy. Don't recall this one, but the record version could only have been an improvement.

    Mr New Muzik does look like Keith Harris without Orville, doesn't he?

    Captain Beaky! I loved this when I was a kid, and still think it stands up as a nice story song, I remember staying up to watch Keith Michell do the TV special of this. I believe it was Noel Edmonds who propelled it into the charts. Keith's a better orator than he is an artist, mind you.

    The Specials, well, I was wrong about something last week too. I said this was the only hit song to reference Alf Garnett, but a friend pointed out that The Monkees' Alternate Title was originally called Randy Scouse Git after an Alf quote. Not that it was called as such in the UK.

    Don't recall this Queen number at all. What was that about being naked and stranded or something? Didn't that happen to Martin Clunes?

    1. It's interesting that both Kenny Rogers and Keith Michell on this show did some storytelling with a dramatic ending, with Kenny storming to No.1 and Keith Michell to No.5 with Captain Beaky in February 1980, the first being hero overcoming the bar room brawl villain, and the other a light hearted children's song that adults seemed to flock to buy.

      We've obviously come a long way since then 30 years later.

    2. The Revillos included vocalists Fay Fife and Eugene Reynolds from The Rezillos, but not guitarist and chief songwriter Jo Callis, with whom they had split acrimoniously a year or so earlier. Jo would record unsuccessfully as a member of two other bands, SHAKE (which included two other ex-Rezillos, as well as future Teardrop Explodes guitarist Troy Tate) and Boots For Dancing, before rocketing to international fame with Human League.

    3. Don't forget that Kenny Rogers was singing a song about the Wild West. It wasn't set in Gerrards Cross.

    4. I suppose so, but I still get a Death Wish vibe from Coward of the County.

  5. I think The Selecter’s track is more about a desire to get out of a humdrum lifestyle and become a pop star than anything suggestive.

    The Revillos was a necessary name change. Sire Records only allowed to release singers Fay Fife and Eugene Reynolds from their record contract provided they didn’t use the Rezillos name again. This wasn’t their best effort – “Where’s The Boy For Me” and a rampant whirlwind version of Johnny Kidd and the Pirates’ 1963 hit “Hungry For Love” are much better.

    Keith Michelle actually had a chart hit as a singer in 1971 with “I’ll Give You The Earth”. It spent nine weeks in the 40’s, one at 39, and a single week in the anchor mugshot position.

    How ironic that, just as “Fifty Shades Of Grey” goes global, the singer of “Fade To Grey” fades away.

    1. Only just discovered that "Fade To Grey" wasn't Visage's first single. They'd released their debut single, "Tar", on Radar / Genetic in late '79 before moving to Polydor.

  6. Well, what do you know, somebody does know why the Rezillos became the Revillos. O me of little faith.

    If The Selecter are on the show properly with Three Minute Hero I promise to take note of the lyrics.

    RIP Steve Strange, will we be seeing him at the end of the year? Some say Mind of a Toy was his real masterwork as far as the Visage singles went, it certainly has a great video.

    1. No Visage this year, I'm afraid. They're on five times in 1981, all on video, but two of those are Yewtreed. I agree that I think "Mind Of A Toy" was their best song.

    2. 'Damned Don't Cry' is my favourite!

  7. It was a pleasant surprise to find we had a show this week - normally this would have been a Sky at Night Thursday. I don't know if BBC4 have decided just to show TOTP every week from now on, but clearly if they have there will need to be a big break at some point to accommodate the Yewtreed episodes and those lost to the MU strike - there are only about 8 months' worth of broadcastable episodes from 1980.

    Anyway, this show was certainly TOTP at its most eclectic, though the quality varied considerably and it was annoying to have both The Specials and Jon & Vangelis cut while Captain Bloomin' Beaky was allowed to go on for an eternity. Stiil, I suppose it was appropriate to see Keith Michell on our screens at a time when Henry VIII in also back on TV, albeit in a different guise!

    I enjoyed the Revillos' colourful performance, though the song wasn't in the same league as the Rezillos' earlier hits. No great surprise that Coward of the County had the the same co-writer as Lucille, as they sound very similar and are equally tedious - I find it rather mystifying why Mr Rogers had such a big fanbase in this country. Rather more to my taste was John Foxx, who looked effortlessly cool and produced quite a tasty slab of synthpop with Underpass. He's very much the forgotten man of that scene now - I wonder what he thought when his ex-bandmates finally found big chart success a year later?

    Considerably less cool-looking were the Shads, though their belated effort to jump on board the disco bandwagon isn't too bad, and would have been more credible if they hadn't turned up to promote it! Billy Ocean's effort was OK, but not catchy enough to bring his chart exile to an end. His time would (eventually) come again...

    I quite enjoyed Kid's introduction to the Legs performance, though the routine itself was embarrassing, and must have looked pretty naff in 1980. It was striking to see Steve Wright looking so slim at the end, given how his weight has ballooned in recent years - let's hope we love his debut show next week...

    1. Incidentally, I agree with Angelo that there did seem to be a Blitz Kid dancing to the Ramones - a sign of things soon to come.

    2. I remember at the time between 1980-1982, whenever TOTP played a video of Jon & Vangelis or Vangelis on his own, they seemed to play as little of it as possible, and stingy on the coverage of their singles. Pity, as at the time John & Vangelis never made it to the TOTP studio, and promo videos were the only way to see them.

      As for the specials, it was strange that for this No.1, they never made it to the TOTP studio, and the show required a video that looked like one of those university gigs full of students.

    3. I've probably bored you with this story before, but I have a gold disc...though not for any of my songs, sadly! Our long gone and much loved town centre record shop doubled as the worldwide headquarters for the Cliff Richard and Shadows fan clubs (intriguing as the shop was one of a chain of four excellent punk and new wave retailers), and they had a gold disc of "Riders in The Sky" on sale in the shop. I got it for the princely sum of 25 quid (remember, kids, this was the very early 80's) and now it's probably worth...25 quid!

    4. RE Specials - I think this was the film of the live recording from the EP that was No 1 (tot cut it before the mention of contraception and dutch methods of it). There is a superior and longer studio recording of the song, but that wasn't at number one!

    5. I believe when J&V released 'I'll find my way home' they first featured it with one member of Legs & Co. dancing to it. Then, to my utmost surprise, J&V themselves appeared in the TOTP studio a couple of weeks later to promote it! All to come in 1981.

  8. revillos: quite amusing, and certainly no worse than "top of the pops". in fact very b-52's-like in my opinion. sadly in contrast to eugene and his huge quiff, both bassist and guitarist are already fighting a losing battle with expanding-forehead syndrome, despite the latter's ridiculous attempts to cover it up. eugene should have wore the cool shades he sported before, as sadly his eyes are rather piggy in the same manner that roy orbison's were

    kenny rogers: next!

    azymuth: i liked this fun legs routine, but sadly some of them were kept caged until at least half-way through

    john foxx: someone watching with me said he was obviously influenced by gary numan (i had to correct them by saying it was actually the other way around). i really wanted to like his solo singles as he was such a cool guy, but they never really clicked with me until "europe after the rain" (hopefully we'll get to see that next year)

    shadows: did anyone else notice how low the keyboard was? the guy playing it had to have arms like an ape to reach down that far! maybe peter hook was watching? as for the music: formula disco with hank doing his usual one-trick pony act

    ramones: i already knew all about this lot as the music inkies would start jerking themselves off at the mere mention of their name. but i never heard anything of theirs until this. and then i wondered what the hell the fuss was all about! okay, this isn't their usual thrash, but even when i heard that afterwards i thought it was utter rubbish

    billy ocean: i wasn't impressed with this at all, but then again it is the totp orch at work. so i checked the original version on youtube: everyone knows that billy ripped-off wacko for "caribbean queen", but (although it's actually quite good) the similarity of this to "don't stop til you get enough" proves that wasn't the first time!

    keith michell: shouldn't this infantile nonsense have been shown on "jackanory" rather than totp?

    1. What do you mean Jackanory? I quite liked Hissing Sid and Batty Bat. After all, this managed to get two weeks at No.5 in the UK chart, infantile nonsense or not.

    2. that was the thing about the british charts at the time: anomalies like this and "one day at a time" somehow managed to do very well in them despite having nothing to do with the contemporary pop scene. how did they manage it? were they pushed by certain radio DJ's or something? and who exactly bought these records, and were that all they bought? or were they also buying the latest singles from the likes of the specials, madness, or even azymuth? (the mere thought of "jazz carnival" nestling in a singles box next to "captain beaky" is making me feel a bit queasy!)

    3. i have been listening again to the 12" version of the billy ocean, and despite it being a complete crib i can't help but think it's really rather good - especially the instrumental bit near the end:

    4. I like the egalitarian nature of the charts back then, that everyone's taste was represented whether they be little old ladies for Lena or little kids for the Captain. Better than now where everyone likes (or tolerates) everything or nothing.

  9. There's something unfamiliar about this one, as if I didn't see it the first time round, but the wall planner data gives no clue.

    Don't remember the Revillos at all, and having enjoyed the Rezillos hit some 18 months previously I thought it would have struck a chord. The guitarist looks like he belongs in the Grumbleweeds.

    Kenny Rogers has certainly come a long way from the bass-thumping hippie of a decade earlier. Interesting that while he's remembered as a silver-haired and silver-bearded country crooner he hadn't gone totally grey as of 1980. He was in his early 40s at this time, as far as I know.

    I too fail to see the connection between 'Jazz Carnival' and caged animals but it made for an entertaining bit of light relief. I thought Kid's intro was rather good, don't know if the abrupt cut-off was intentional.

    John Foxx - a classic piece of synthpop but his 'band' could hardly be called telegenic. The future doesn't look very bright at all.

    The same could be said about the Shadows. I can't help feeling that if they had insisted on playing live they would have made far more impact.

    I wonder what the Ramones thought about their only major UK hit single being atypical? I don't know if this is the original line-up seen here, but the band is notable in that all of said original line-up are now deceased, with drummer Tommy Ramone being the last to go, fairly recently.

    Jon & Vangelis - now this would have been a bit dull in the studio with just one guy singing and another plinking away at a synth (thinks of Soft Cell, Pet Shop Boys, Erasure etc. etc. etc.), so it was good to have a promo. It would have been even better to see all of it.

    I also thought this Billy Ocean number was a straight rip-off of Don't Stop Till You Get enough but to me the record version sounds a bit more original.

    Captain Beaky live! You can always rely on these repeats to throw up something different. I've no idea why this became a hit at this time but I do remember that Stewpot had been playing it for at least the previous two years. From memory, Tony Blackburn had taken over the weekend breakfast slot from the beginning of 1980 and I don't think he was too keen on having to play this! Keith Michell has the same weird accent as fellow countryman Ed Doolan* - don't know what it is, but it's not Australian as we know it. The lyrics were written by the late Jeremy Lloyd, of Are You Being Served and 'Allo! 'Allo! fame, something I discovered only quite recently.

    Is the film we see of the Specials taken from the same concert as the sound recording on the record? The audio seems slightly different, maybe it's just an alternative mix. A good EP, shame that the rest of it appears to be long forgotten.

    This end credit play is all we get to hear of this Queen single, maybe just as well. I can't help feeling that they entered a low period in the early 1980s, before bouncing back in 1984. OK, so they had a No.1 with David Bowie and a couple of top tenners, including the execrable 'Flash', but 'Save Me', 'Play The Game', 'Las Palabras De Amor'? Well, can you remember how they went?

    * - As Jasper Carrott would say, "he's world famous in Birmingham"!

    1. Woah, there, I love the whole Flash Gordon soundtrack, it's the best thing Queen ever did in my opinion as someone not so keen on them.

    2. tommy ramone had long since left the band in question by this point, being replaced by marky ramone (who is still with us). blondie drummer clem burke briefly played for them under the pseudonym "elvis ramone"...

    3. i remember quite liking "body language" when it got played on the radio (quite a lot) back in the early 80's, but the totp chart compilers never needed to sort out a mugshot for it. i have listened again now, and freddie's obviously straining to burst out of the closet (which may not have been to everyone's liking back then, queen fans included), basically accompanied by a synth bass, a drum loop and some synthetic handclaps. in retrospect, it should really have been released as a solo single:

    4. ..when we get films of songs, they do sound faster and of higher pitch, for technical reasons being played at 25/24 of their recorded speed, so the Specials film could be the EP version speeded up slightly.

    5. The Revillos' guitarist Hi-Fi Harris - real name Mark Sinclair - is now an architect. With his long hair and glasses, he HAD to take up a career in a mathematical field!

    6. Thanks for all the replies.

      THX - We beg to differ. 'Flash' sounds like it was knocked up in 5 minutes flat to me.

      Nutty Big D - You're probably right. The Kenny Rogers clip was definitely 24fps film, unless he always performed this song live at a breakneck speed.

    7. You say that like it's a bad thing! Er, anyway, watch it in the context of the movie next time it's on ITV4 and it plays like a dream. A very camp dream.

    8. They would have needed a fleeting mugshot for "Body Language" as it spent one week in the top 30 at number 25.

    9. apologies to both arthur and queen, although no. 25 is very much a flop by the latter's standards...

  10. This dreary edition would have disappointed me as much as an 18-year-old as it did now. favourite moment was Fay Fife’s accent when singing “favourite” – and I agree about The Revillos guitarist’s terrible hairstyle.

    What with Kenny Rogers looking like a fat Noel Edmonds, Mike Harding on bass for the Shadows and “golf club dad” on drums, and Steve Wright looking like Rupert Holmes at a New Musik convention, it was like punk never happened.

    What on Earth was that Legs & Co routine? And the outfits! Surely they should have been Rio carnival dancers. Instead we get Sue as a green leopard??? I know leopard print onesies hadn’t been invented back then, but surely they could have offered Granada some dosh to borrow Bet Lynch’s wardrobe for the night.

    Was that one of Heaven 17 / BEF / soon-to-appear Human League backing John Foxx on “Underpants”?

    A couple of awry predictions from The Kid. New Musik turned out not to be ones to watch for the future, and Rupert Holmes didn’t fly very high after beginning to take off – just four more places higher, in fact.

    The Ramones’ single felt like a real culture shock to me – never liked it – and Billy Ocean may as well have shouted “jam roll, hee hee” and worn a Jacko mask for his effort.

    Queen’s outro tune was the aural equivalent of beige to these ears, the Jon and Vangelis video was awful, but it all paled into insignificance with Keith Michell. I would probably have trudged off in despair and raided the kitchen when this was first on. Actually, what's in the fridge right now? Hmmm….

    Hope I 'love the show' next time round. Oh, hang on, who's the host again?

    1. arthur i don't know if you're aware of this, but shadows drummer brian bennett (the most ordinary-looking man in pop!) actually wrote a piece of music (called "chase side shoot-up") that became the theme (and still is as far as i know) for the beeb's golf coverage!

    2. John Foxx's backing trio included the electronic cabaret duo Eddie and Sunshine, who had an independent chart hit in '81 with 'Another Teardrop Falls'. That song sticks out in my memory, as its main instrumental riff was lifted from 'Stranger On The Shore'. Heaven 17 were on the same label (Virgin) as Mr Foxx, but I don't think they had anything to do with 'Underpass'.

    3. Maybe I'm turning into Mister Magoo, but I thought I could make out Ian Craig Marsh on right hand synth behind John Foxx. As for Brian Bennett, I much preferred the original version of his fine golf theme and not the revamp - and its title's a real juxtaposition to the tune itself.

    4. there is a long road that leads out from enfield to the countryside called chase side (i know because i once lived in that area) - maybe that's the chase side in question? i do know from reading mike read's shadows biography that brian bennett lived in whetstone, which isn't too far away from chase side... however that's all conjecture on my part!

  11. thanks julie for informing us about eddie & sunshine - i was hugely into the new romantic/synth pop scene in the early 80's, and yet i've never heard of them! i had a listen to some of their stuff on youtube (it's good to see they managed to put together several videos despite their lack of commercial success) and thought some of it ("somewhere in europe", "lines") was pretty good. perhaps their downfall was having such an ordinary/old-fashioned name that in no way reflected what they were about - given their teutonic look and sound, perhaps they should have called themselves something like "edvard und gretschen"?

    1. According to 45cat, there were at least two singles released as Eddie Maelov And Sunshine Patteson on Human. then three singles as Eddie and Sunshine on Survival, the label which brought us Tik and Tok. I love the fact our forumites make me want to research and discover info completely new to me.

    2. ah, tik and tok... whenever there's a programme on the telly about the new romantics (which seems quite often), they always seem to show a clip of tik (or is it tok?) at a party...

  12. Unless this was the genuine single version and the version I know from "Metamatic" is elongated then Foxx was truncated for this episode as well as the Specials and Jon & Vangelis, for the second verse is missing "Well I used to remember / Now it's all gone / World War Something / We were somebody's sons"

  13. Very late to the party again.....

    I really enjoyed this show, a good mixture with loads I loved as a kid (Keith Michell, The Ramones, even Kenny Rogers) and stuff I do now like John Foxx.

    The Legs routine was extremely odd but Gill (I think? I always get mixed up) as a bunny girl is definitely watchable.

    No love for 'Save Me' then? Shame, as it's one of my favourite Queen songs, very underrated.

    1. Think Rosie was the bunny girl.

  14. First week at number one for the Specials. A very short song...and it's cut short!!!! Why?